quote:

ORIGINAL: atruefaith

Oh, and this one too...

For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter - 2 Cor. 7:9b-11

So if it's Godly sorrow we are talking about, then you can only argue about which Person of the Trinity is bringing the sorrow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

Is it true that God the Holy Spirit convicts Believers of their sins?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

Is it true that God the Holy Spirit convicts Believers of their sins?

OK, URF. Just tell us. Pleaaaaaaaaaase.

I know that you don't believe the Holy Spirit convicts believers of their sins as you've told me that before. But I've also been very curious as to what you believe and how you came to believe what you do. So will you share it with me and all the other curious ones here. Ya know I love ya so do it for me. . . pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

quote:

There is no doubt that Believers will experience conviction, but I have yet to see anything Biblical that supports this notion that it is the Holy Spirit who is doing the convicting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
We are made righteous by faith...

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

I would like to see the Scriptural support for this belief for which there is very clear and overwhelming Scriptural evidence to the contrary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

I would like to see the Scriptural support for this belief for which there is very clear and overwhelming Scriptural evidence to the contrary.

Please give your "Scriptural evidence to the contrary."

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
We are made righteous by faith...

Ah. But without the Holy Spirit indwelling within us, we would never be righteous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

So you are saying that either

A) no true believer ever sins

- or -

B) if a christian sins no one needs to prompt him or her to repent from that sin?

quote:

ORIGINAL: atruefaith

quote:

There is no doubt that Believers will experience conviction, but I have yet to see anything Biblical that supports this notion that it is the Holy Spirit who is doing the convicting.

That's because you have a reputation for ignoring those Scriptures that disagree with your view and then employing silly putty exegesis when you try to defend views that are biblically indefensible. I've posted two Scriptures that you've yet again ignored. I guess that what's I get when I play in your sandbox..[Edited by moderator - TOS 6]. Peace. Out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

So you are saying that either

A) no true believer ever sins

- or -

B) if a christian sins no one needs to prompt him or her to repent from that sin?

I am saying that God the Holy Spirit does not convict us of what God has taken away and remembers no more.

Peace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

Since you basically ignored it before, UR, let me say it again:

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." I John 1

He says^^, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us". He is obviously talking to believers here since His Word is not in unbelievers. He is also obviously talking about sin after conversion.

Also, James 5 is also speaking to Christians as the people he is addressing here are called "Brethren"...

..."And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

Why would we be told to confess our sins^^, if they were all forgiven at conversion?

14 "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." -Romans 7

Paul is speaking here^^ after his conversion. Why would he speak so if he had nothing to be bowed down about, i.e. his sin after conversion.

And why, if there was no need to confess sin after conversion on the premise that they were all forgiven at conversion, would this be the model Jesus left for the way we are to pray?

9 "In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. 14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." -Matthew 6

Now, to your original question regarding whether or not the Holy Spirit convicts of us sin:

16 "15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." -John 14

26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." -John 15

7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. 12 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth" -John 16

The Greek word translated here “Helper” means one who is called alongside and has the idea of someone who encourages and exhorts.

Exhort: To urge by strong, often stirring argument, admonition, advice, or appeal

Admonish:
1. To reprove gently but earnestly.
2. To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.
3. To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.

What exactly would the Holy Spirit be exhorting, admonishing,reproving, and cautioning us about if it weren't sin?

ETA: "Proverbs 29:1 warns, "A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed--without remedy" (NIV). There's a very real danger of ending up like those "whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron" (1 Tim. 4:2, NIV). As we have seen, one of the Holy Spirit's functions is to convict men and women of their sin. His main way of doing that is through the conscience. If the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you something, don't risk putting Him off. Examine what is troubling your conscience in the light of Scripture, and immediately make any necessary changes so that your conscience might remain usable." -John MacArthur

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

So then -

For example; If its NOT Yahweh, Jesus, NOR - the Holy Spirit - who tells me its a big no-no to use God's name as a cuss word, then WHO IS?


Because I used to do that!

And never felt guilt/remorse for doing it!

Now, after turning my life around for God - its a whole new ball-game.

I know now, it is a very bad thing to do - and when I do it (yes I still do it very occassionally), I feel guilt/remorse. And yes - I do my bestest to make amends.

So who is it?

quote:

IMHO - I agree w/ the lot of them, that it is indeed the - Holy Spirit.

Because if it isn't the Holy Spirit causing me to stay on the narrow path, I'd like to know who is - because it sure isn't me nor Satan! (because I could just as easily go back into my old life style with or without Spiritual help - good or bad!)

-charles

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

I guess he picked door A - no true believer ever sins. That is entirely unbiblical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: urforgiven

What the Holy Spirit exhorts us to is the incredible inheritance we have in Christ...

Saved by grace, Eph 2:8,9
Totally forgiven, Col. 2:13,14
Reconciled to God, Rom. 5:10
Justified, Rom. 3:23,24
New Creatures, 2 Cor. 5:17
At peace with God, Rom. 5:1
Righteous, 2 Cor. 5:21
Perfect Forever, Heb. 10:14
Freed from Condemnation, Rom. 8:1
Holy and Blameless, Col. 1:22
Freed from the Law, Rom. 8:2
Hidden with Christ in God, Col. 3:3
Clothed with Christ, Gal. 3:27
Loved Perfectly, Rom. 8:38,39.

Peace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: urforgiven

What the Holy Spirit exhorts us to is the incredible inheritance we have in Christ...

Saved by grace, Eph 2:8,9
Totally forgiven, Col. 2:13,14
Reconciled to God, Rom. 5:10
Justified, Rom. 3:23,24
New Creatures, 2 Cor. 5:17
At peace with God, Rom. 5:1
Righteous, 2 Cor. 5:21
Perfect Forever, Heb. 10:14
Freed from Condemnation, Rom. 8:1
Holy and Blameless, Col. 1:22
Freed from the Law, Rom. 8:2
Hidden with Christ in God, Col. 3:3
Clothed with Christ, Gal. 3:27
Loved Perfectly, Rom. 8:38,39.

Peace

Yes, He is incredible, but this in no way counteracts what I said. On the contrary, I think these would be perfect examples of His "encouragement" and not His "exhortation"...it has an entirely different meaning as I so carefully pointed out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

OK, now you confused me. All your scriptures were dealing with sins at the time of salvation and none with any afterward. It looked like you were saying that was the ONLY time a person had to deal with sins.

Who do you say convicts (convinces and encourages to repent - NOT something the devil wants) a believer of sinful acts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: urforgiven

What the Holy Spirit exhorts us to is the incredible inheritance we have in Christ...

Saved by grace, Eph 2:8,9
Totally forgiven, Col. 2:13,14
Reconciled to God, Rom. 5:10
Justified, Rom. 3:23,24
New Creatures, 2 Cor. 5:17
At peace with God, Rom. 5:1
Righteous, 2 Cor. 5:21
Perfect Forever, Heb. 10:14
Freed from Condemnation, Rom. 8:1
Holy and Blameless, Col. 1:22
Freed from the Law, Rom. 8:2
Hidden with Christ in God, Col. 3:3
Clothed with Christ, Gal. 3:27
Loved Perfectly, Rom. 8:38,39.

Peace

Yes, He is incredible, but this in no way counteracts what I said. On the contrary, I think these would be perfect examples of His "encouragement" and not His "exhortation"...it has an entirely different meaning as I so carefully pointed out.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then. I cannot speak to your many conclusions in your previous post, as we are very far apart those. But, I still do not see the evidence for the Holy Spirit, who is God, lets not forget, contradicting Himself by remembering what He has said He remembers no more. Bless you.

Peace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: urforgiven

What the Holy Spirit exhorts us to is the incredible inheritance we have in Christ...

Saved by grace, Eph 2:8,9
Totally forgiven, Col. 2:13,14
Reconciled to God, Rom. 5:10
Justified, Rom. 3:23,24
New Creatures, 2 Cor. 5:17
At peace with God, Rom. 5:1
Righteous, 2 Cor. 5:21
Perfect Forever, Heb. 10:14
Freed from Condemnation, Rom. 8:1
Holy and Blameless, Col. 1:22
Freed from the Law, Rom. 8:2
Hidden with Christ in God, Col. 3:3
Clothed with Christ, Gal. 3:27
Loved Perfectly, Rom. 8:38,39.

Peace

Yes, He is incredible, but this in no way counteracts what I said. On the contrary, I think these would be perfect examples of His "encouragement" and not His "exhortation"...it has an entirely different meaning as I so carefully pointed out.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then. I cannot speak to your many conclusions in your previous post, as we are very far apart those. But, I still do not see the evidence for the Holy Spirit, who is God, lets not forget, contradicting Himself by remembering what He has said He remembers no more. Bless you.

Peace

I just sort of hate it when people ignore the entire context of a post and cut and paste to try and prove their point...not that I think you did....prove your point, that is. I would so appreciate it if you could respond to my whole post (#38).